Cucumis needs a redesign

Cucumis is an old website

It has become too much complex for new visitors.

The way we accept translations with experts makes very accurate translations. But we've seen experts can't be here all the time. We need a new way to evaluate things.

The website that can ve a good inspiration is this one http://stackoverflow.com/

It's a question / answer website :

- quick registration / no registration
- people votes for the answers, the best rated answer are supposed to be the most accurate

These 2 concepts could be adapted with the specific tools or language search, that already exists on cucumis.

I think it's a totally new site so maybe it could be created on a new url like new.cucumis.org . Then when it's ready some of the database of cucumis could be imported.

It's just an idea so far, and it's a very long term project!!!

Congratuations!
It is Tech!
But I cannot open your link. Maybe because I am in China!

So let's not be bothered about quality anymore, and just accept translations when 'the general public' (whatever that may be) thinks it is good enough?

With the internet people don't seem to be bothered about quality anymore, just communication. Sooner or later everyone will call themselves translators. Is that what you want to happen here too? You may as well use google translate, I guess it will give the same results as when 10 people vote that a translation is 'good', without them necessarily being fluent in both languages.

I think that you may have a point that the site should be easier, maybe designed in a new way or reorganized?

As for me I don't mind too much about the new look of the website, but I'm really worrying about the content.

Nowadays everything tends to become "tech" and "bling-bling"; and quality of communication, care about the accuracy of all the translations is going to disappear.

Now many people think "the faster the better", no matter if the work is well done. And it seems the less people will commmunicate, the faster the work will be done.

If the "New Cucumis" concept were applied, I'd leave the site as it has nothing more to do with the initial spirit of the site.

as it is now, with its little bit old-fashioned look, attracted me and made me a total fan of it when I was a newbie, although websites like the one the link of which you posted, JP already existed, but I've never been attracted by them, as they are "empty of soul" (I know my English is not that good, and I'm feeling a bit upset while posting, as there was at least ONE website I really loved : this one where I'm posting, and it may disappear because of the worldwide "hurry! fast-fast-fast!" trend, which bothers me deeply, I must say.

It's for me a bit as if I used to get to a very nice place where food was prepared with love of the well done things, and I was told the place was going to close because it had to be replaced by a fast food place.

What concerns me I just don't understand why
should be changed. We are all here because we like the way it works now. Personally, I have met friends here. We are communicating together in order to have the best translations and I do think we have succeded. Moreover some of us have met in the real life, wasn't it what you wanted when you started ? So many people here have invested almost all their spare time on . If you do change I'm afarid most of us will leave. What a waste. For sure I won't stay. I'm just a little translator doing my best. I love my Funny , we almost all say MY . Sorry for my poor English but what I have written
comes from my . Have tried to express myself the way I could and I still have my English
experts to edit.

Hello my dear friends!
Yes I completely agree with all my previous speakers.
I'm sorry jp, but neither do I believe that the new project could beat this wonderful website called Cucumis.org you once created. Nor do I believe that we can separate good translations from the bad ones just by voting... Remember that we never know if one vote is given for a serious purpose or only for fun, when everybody can vote and we don't know who are the people voting. I do believe that nothing can replace a work of experts who are reliable people, whose knowledge was examined before etc.
Of course it is a problem that some experts are much less active than others. We all know it is a voluntary job, so we can't force anybody. But we still can and should look for another candidates and encourage people to join us by the pleasant and professional cooperation.
I agree we still should improve our beloved website, but in my opinion we shouldn't change its basics thanks to which it is so unique and valuable.
My best regards!
Aneta

Hi jp

Aneta, Chantal Gamine and Francky have already said much of what I would have written here.

What makes cucumis such a great site to be on is the conviviality between its members.

What makes cucumis such a great translation site is the use of Experts in each language in order to maintain a high standard of translation.

Though "the best rated answers are supposed to be the most accurate" system would probably be a more "democratic" one, it is not really applicable to translation.

Imagine 40 non native speakers voting on a text!! The simple fact that they have already seen something badly spelled or with grammatical and syntax errors in another text on the net would lead them to validate a text full of mistakes.

Imagine a text in British English being rejected because it has been voted upon by American English speakers.

I do not find that the user interface has really changed that much since I first started here on cucumis, it is one of the easiest sites to use I have ever been on.

One of the tasks of Experts and Admins is to help new users find their way round the site and that increases the conviviality in itself.

I'm a stalwart believer in "if it is not broken, don't fix it". It seems to be applicable here.

Bises
Tantine

Hi everyone

My opinion is just like yours about this subject. Even if I am a new expert here, I appreciate my task very much. To be honest, until I found , I had never seen any website including so many people at so many different ages and from so many countries in the world. You know, who uses the Internet the most is generally young people, but here the case is really different and it is about the particularity of and I think we shouldn't destroy its nature.

One of the most important subjects is the way of evaluation of translations as you know. You may think it is not good and fast enough but if real experts stop correcting them and if translations are decided to be wrong or correct according to votes, I don't think the website will reach its goal. First, there are many people here who vote that translations which contain lots of mistakes are OK. For example, I don't mind any votes while evaluating translations because they are not usually helpful. Another thing I believe being very important is the purpose of I mean, yeah maybe the most important aim is to get translations of some texts but I believe that when we evaluate a translation, it is also important for translators to see their mistakes and to learn something. Francky knows this quite well, after being a member of , my English and my French have been really improved thanks to our experts. But if we use automatic tools, it won't be possible.

In brief, I think we should keep our dear and its aims. Maybe we could make some changes to modernize it, but not completely. So, it is my opinion, hope I could explain myself clearly.

Agreed with the previous speakers!

Hi, Dear all!
You are making JP very difficult.
I don't want to seek a midland, but I think CUCUMIS is an ideal brand already in our heart.
So if we really need redesign, we can register another domain name, and put the new stuff on that line

JP, you'd best ask us to think about a very name for the new one!
I will give the first name proposal:
Cercer.org
the name means circle-circle member

Hi pluiepoco

It isn't a question of brand name. It's a question of atmosphere and quality.

Under a "stackoverflow" system, Experts will be superfluous to requirements. This will lead to a lowering of the quality of our ouput and at the same time a lowering of the input (atmosphere) produced since we will no longer discuss with the translator and other members under the translation.

Thinking of a new name for the site is rather putting the cart before the horse.

Bises
Tantine

haha, Tantine. I understand it.
Since I cannot open the stackoverflow link, I don't know how it is.
I am blinded.
My proposal of new domain, is considering that new system might harm original cucumis community.
To avoid departure or division of this community, JP must not renovate the site this way, and he may test his ideas on another site.

That is my idea. But one is usually too small to do too many. So if JP spares his time in creating another site, his limited passions will be further limited on this site. That is what I am worrying about.

Pluiepoco,

The site you can't see is a question and answer site. You ask a question and others reply to your question. The different replies are put to the vote and the reply receiving the highest number of votes is considered as being the correct reply.

Bises
Tantine

Hi great!
I get to know it a bit.
In fact, in Chinese web communities, there are many similar mechanisms. Except that we ususally don't use voting, instead, the requesters decide which to choose from the many.
(For example:
http://zhidao.baidu.com/
http://ks.cn.yahoo.com/
)
I think, if JP applies this idea on translation field, it will be a good start, even if not serious.
Think of wiki, its start was also unprofessional in specific realms. But now, it has employed many experts and the doors are not open to ordinary visitors now.

I think JP is exploring a very long term possibility, and in fact, this process is longer than what we can imagine.

Additionally, expertisation & administration are also featured in wiki which is an open community.
This tells much!

Last CAUTION:
In China, that kind of "Q & A" streams is already becoming a kind of "self-Q & self-A so as to advertise self" streams! HEHEHEHEHE, that is truly ridiculous!

Reading what you have written above is heart-warming... so much care/ love for this site. I feel much the same

In my opinion a site like the one you linked JP can NEVER replace a place like Cucumis. They are so different! Though... I agree, improvements are needed. The backlog is huge! Some translations has waited for years to be evaluated and many requesters/ translators seems to have lost interest in their request/ translation :-(

If a site like 'stackoverflow.com' could be a supplement (not a replacement) to our 'old' Cucumis... I think it might be a good thing. Could be an option for members who don't need a 'quality translation'/ or have the time to wait. Their choice!!

Well, I have to say that, like so many others, I agree wholeheartedly with everyone who argued against the Q & A format. Although I haven't been a very active expert lately, I still feel that the strength of , as has already been said, is the experts, with their expertise, and the comraderie among us.

And I'd like to add that the evidence can be seen above for the second purpose of that Bilge mentioned above, in the almost flawless English displayed by most of the non-native speakers of English who contributed above.

Note: Tantine, I was at first a bit ruffled by your example of the American English speakers evaluating a British English text, but then I was reminded of the seminar I attended earlier today online, given by a well known British expert in my field, who used many terms I had never heard before, such as "OAP" and "real peas".

Ahah so everybody agrees. Well maybe that could be another site actually. I'm pretty sure there are people who wants translations more quickly even if they are not so accurate.

Let's order the translation services on the web.

Based on their quality :

Automatic translation < NewCucumis < Cucumis < Translation agency

Now based on their rapidity :

Cucumis < NewCucumis <Translation agency < Automatic translation

So NewCucumis concept is not the best but is honorable in all fields.

Don't worry, your comments confirm it's better to make a new site. Actually I'm so busy that I can't say when I could do this, but this is something I would like to do.

No, jp. Most people are disagreeing with this idea. Please read through carefully.

Hi pluie, what JP said is that he noticed people agreed with one another here and let him hear the same ring a bell.

IMO, JP, if ever you call this new site "New Cucumis", our users will think they've got to register to the "New Cucumis" because the "regular one" ("Old Cucumis" is now obsolete. That would contribute to "desertify" our actual cucumis.

Why not calling it "Fast Cucumis", and add a slogan like "For those who are in a hurry no matter the quality". Or maybe, copying the "American movies which were a comercial success", could you name it "Cucumis 2"?

Trying to be funny, but I must say you frightened me with the first post you left here, JP! I told myself : "Oooh, JP is tired from , he now wants to get rid of it!"

Now that you got our point of view, I'm now glad to read you're not planning to adopt what you first were planning to do.

Great! Relieved to hear that JP

Agree with Franck about the new name 'New Cucumis'. It sounds like the old is gone... no good.