Vertaling - Dear, you have already forgotten me (Engels)

Here's how I would put it: "My darling, have you already forgotten me? I miss you." The speaker here seems to be showing pettishness, but the translation by Oana F. sounds like an acrid comment by a jealous lover.

This form in Chinese grammar
(xyz) 不 (xyz)
indicates a simple question, not an assumption, so
... have you already forgotten me? ...
is a more accurate translation.

用"是不是"的正反问句。
如果提问的人对某一事实或情况已有比较肯定的估计，为了进一步得到证实，就可以用这种疑问句提局句。 “是不是”可以用在一个陈述句的谓语前，也可以用在句首或句尾。例如：
1. 你们是不是明天动身？
2.你们明天是不是去颐和园？
3.是不是你们打算出去旅行了？
4.你家住在北京的郊区，是不是？
有时，用“是不是”并不是要得到证实，而是征求对方的同意，带有一种商量的口气，有“。。。好吗”的意味。表示这种语气的“是不是”一般用在谓语前，但不能在句子后面。例如：
1.我们是不是找他谈一谈？
2.是不是我去帮助他一下？

（使用现代汉语语法，商务印书馆，2002年，北京）
Dear Ian, your mistake was to treat this kind of phrase as a simple "yes/no question". A simple yes/no question is like this: 你是不是中国人？。You can see that in this example the verb "是" is the main verb. But in the other case "是不是" emphases the main verb "忘记"。So, the right translation is: Isn't it true that...or ...,haven't you?, which is the same thing.

Wow, I had never heard of this way of using 是不是 in the middle of the sentence like that, but if your grammar book says so, I guess it must be right!
I had only heard of using it at the end,
...,是不是？
where it of course means
..., right?
or our "tag question"
..., haven't you? / ..., isn't he? / etc.
but I had never seen it in the middle of the sentence, and never with the second meaning you mention, as a request for approval, like our
..., okay?
But if that book of modern-day grammar use in Chinese says so...

CC: cacue23 pluiepoco humanlot

Ok, as a native speaker of Chinese I've never really bothered with grammar. But is there really an assumption involved in this sentence? Do you tell your "other half" that you miss him/her ASSUMING at the same time that he/she has forgotten you?

If you really want to adhere to the assumption thing according to the grammar, this might be a better solution:

My darling, you HAVEN'T forgotten me, HAVE you? I miss you.

Hi Oana, Hi all,

What Cacue says makes sense to me.
I think I should bring this translation back to evaluation since I realize that there is more to be discussed.

Should we put it back up to a -community vote again, Lilian?
(I'll vote "I don't know" this time!)

Can be:

I doubt if you have forgotten me...

Cacue, I don't doubt that you, as native speaker, feel better the state of the person, I just gave my reply, explaining with grammar arguments, even if saying "I've never bothered about grammar" seems a bit strange coming from a translator. I just want to ask you: how do you know that the two persons are lovers? I have been in China, chinese and foreigners get friends very easy, they are chinese that I have seen maybe 2 or 3 times and we are still writing to each other. If Gyula's sentence is one of these cases, I think that the translation is more than ok.
Ian, is not "my" grammar book, is everybody's grammar book, everybody can go to the library and buy as many grammar books as they want (in China, of course). I didn't invent those explanations. I copied. I didn't give a webpage add because in the internet they explain only simple Chinese grammar and not linguistic problems.
Pluiepoco, what part of the sentence suggests you a doubt?
I am waiting fore more suggestions from native speakers. Thank you

Gyula, I'm very curious, the person who wrote to you this is your lover, your friend or just a person you met before?

And as there is not certain if the persons are lovers and they can be only friends, that's why I didn't write "my darling" (my dear/my darling is "我亲爱的",but in the sentence is only "亲爱的"without "my". 亲爱的is not used only for lovers, but is exactly theEnglish "Dear" , Dear John, Dear sister, Dear father, dear friend

Hi Oana,

Yes, actually I could see that what you wrote in your explanation was a direct quotation from the grammar book you had. That's what I meant by "your grammar book": that it was a grammar book you had, not one you had written!

Also, looking at it again,
..., you haven't forgotten me, have you?...
seems to be a very good way of expressing the nuance that "I'm worried you might have forgotten me," without actually accusing the recipient of having done so...?
Maybe that's the best version in this case? Hmmm...
I wish my Chinese were as good as my Japanese...

PS: I think pluiepoco means to say
...I suspect you may have forgotten me...

I suspect/doubt you may have forgotten me...
(I don't see anything in the sentence that suggests this). If this sentence is coming from a friend, it doesn't seem to me in English as from a jelous person, it looks to me more like a joke.
"..., you haven't forgotten me, have you?..." - might be a very good solution, although I would translate this in Chinese using "...,没有", or a double negation.

Well, then, if you think Cacue's suggestion of fine, please Oana, edit the line and we may set a new poll, OK?

ok

I might have been a little aggressive in my comment above. But I'd like to point out that for languages so different as Chinese and English, one-to-one correspondance is scarce. You might have learned from your grammar book that such and such a sentence structure in Chinese corrsponds to such and such a sentence structure in English, but grammar is inanimate. It only helps you organize your sentences. It's human beings who animate a language. To translate a sentence that conveys a feeling like this one, you must first decide in what situation this line is likely to be spoken. I don't know what you know about Chinese people, Oana, but I personally would not call a friend or a stranger "亲爱的" (well, a close female friend, maybe), nor do I suppose the majority of Chinese people would. Therefore we can reasonalby assume that this line is spoken to, and by, a lover.
And then you must decide how you want to express it in the target language. In my opinion, English is a very delicate language. A minor change in the order of words conveys a different feeling or accentuates a different element in a sentence. In this case you shouldn't merely "translate" it, you must "sense" it. How to translate it so that the translation matches the feeling, and not just the meaning of the original sentence is the thing to be considered.
Anyway, I started out trying to contradict you, Oana, but looks like I gave you a lecture instead. :S So peace out.

Hi Cacue,
I definitely agree with your idea about trying to "visualize" the place, person, situation, relationship and so on when translating!
Japanese also is SO different from English in so many ways (not just grammar -- totally different -- but what is said and why it is said and how it is said and the effect it has on the listener, etc, etc...). So when I translate texts or interpret professionally, I almost always have to
- completely understand what is said in the source language
- extract its essential ideas
- put it into context, including the relationships and feelings of the people interacting, and then finally
- rephrase the essential ideas completely differently, in an entirely new way based on the usual way of expressing these ideas in the target language, which will also evoke similar feelings and relationship-definitions in the listener!
---
Oana,
Sorry we had to have so much discussion about this one little translation!
I noticed long ago how great your ability in Chinese is, and every time I communicate with you about our translations here at , I always learn something new! I hope you enjoyed our discussions here as much as I did!
I guess this translation can be validated now!

Listen guys, I thank you very much for the "lectures". My point was not to contradict you, but to dicuss about it. Of course, one can read as many grammar books as he wants, but he will never speak or feel a language as a native speaker does. In the same time, as long as I had scientific arguments, I don't think it was right that this translation had been rejected in the first place. About "qinai de", I don't want to contradict you anymore, Cacue, because you would certainly think I would offend chinese people and it wouldn't be my intention, but do you know how curious I am if that person is Gyula's lover? Tell me something, if "she" is his lover or even a close friend, why is he writing to him in a language that he doesn't understand? How did they become so close if they even didn't have a common way to comunicate? (I lived in a dormitory for foreign students for 3 years in China, I know how sometimes things happen between foreigners and Chinese)

Judging from his profile, I bet Gyula received this note, not sent it, and wants to know what it means...
I agree with you Oana, it would indeed be interesting to hear the rest of the story here!
But then again, it might just be a spam message he received...?

Whoa, this is getting a bit weird. Let me put it this way, does it have to be a note written particularly to Gyula? Could it be that he read this from some random place and decided to become curious about its meaning? When I assumed this to be a note between lovers, I meant the GENERAL CASE, which, I suppose, is reasonable according to my understanding of my fellow countrymen. Of course, if anyone wants to bother with the rare cases, go ahead. I understand that you feel bad about your translation being rejected, but your original translation just didn't FEEL right. However, now that we have agreed to disagree, can we stop "discussing" endlessly about this one question?
PS, I've been living in Canada for six years now, so please do not consider me as knowing nothing about how things happen between "foreigners" and Chinese.