Vertimas - We dienen het leven te leven en dit impliceert het innemen van zijn vergif. (Olandų)

This another example of what I call "lost in translation"

The meaning of this translation both english and dutch is distorted.

The emaning is that we are driven by the instinct of survival = we have to live, and if there is life, we have to accept the "poison" meaning the pain and struggle that comes with life, with being alive...

In both the English and the Dutch translation this deeper meaning is completely distorted.

Some times I am saddened by the way "translators" in this site lack the skill of understanding the true meaning of something before translating it, and as a result, such situations occur.

Dear AspieBrain,

It good of you to mention your point!

The first translation in English (which was somewhere end of July, if I recall it right) had exactly this deeper meaning you are talking about, but it was rejected because the English was somewhat awkward. Understandable English though, so maybe it could have been adjusted grammatically.
From that first translation I made a sensible Dutch translation, but it could not be validated because the English one wasn´t.

Now a new English version popped up, which is without this deeper meaning. And it was validated, probably because the English makes sense. But the English expert does not understand Hindi, so she cannot compare meanings.

Since the second translation in English is different from the first, the Dutch translation didn't match anymore and was therefore rejected.
Hence I wrote a new version, a true translation of the newest (but not accurate) English one (since I cannot read Hindi, I had no choice).

I do not now whatever reason there is, that you put in your point at this moment and not earlier. It is a pity, though, because we might have been able to prevent this situation from happening.
Maybe one of our English experts can have a new/another look at this text and translation, and adjust it to this deeper meaning.

Hi Jollyo, Hi Aspie,
I'd like you to read my post under the English translation and give your opinion. Thanks.

CC: AspieBrain

I am sorry I did not "catch" this issue earlier.

I am rather busy in my everyday life and when I have some time I try to contribute to cucumis. Sometimes I have time to also evaluate translations besides translating.

I wish I had seen it back then and prevented this "chain reaction" but then again... better late than never!

I also feel that some of the meaning could be preserved if instead of "take poison" or "vergif nemen" it could be translated as: take the "poison", or het "vergif nemen.

By calling it the "poison" (or het "vergif" and placing the word poison in quotes, the translation shows that it is not talking about actual poison, but of a kind of poison, the "poison", that is reference to a larger meaning of the effect of poison.

To clarify this I will use the Dutch translation.

It is now as: We dienen te leven, als er leven is moeten we vergif nemen.

My idea is: We dienen te leven, als er leven is dan moeten we het "vergif" van het leven innemen.

And here is also the English version of the same idea:

We have to live, and when there is life, we must also accept and take life's "poison."

Hi Lilian,

I'd like to read your post under the English translation, but it seems to have removed (rejected?). Could you post it under this one as well?
Thank you.

This is what Lilian wrote:

By reading those comments I think we should change the words of the line in order to keep that "deeper" meaning the girls are talking about and still be understandable in English.

What about:
"We have to live life and living implies experiencing/accepting some poison as well"?

Discussions like this one, show how culturally bonded language is. And while grammar must be considered, it is very hard to bring the culturally bonded depth of meaning over in the same simple but strong way from one language to another. To achieve that one must be as "fluent" in the use of words as an artist is when it comes to music or painting.

Each artist will see the same, yet express it differently.

About Lein's proposal, I again feel that instead of "poison", it should be "the poison"...

"We have to live life and living implies experiencing/accepting some of the poison as well" or "We have to live life and living implies experiencing/accepting some of life's poison as well" maybe with the word poison in italics or quotes.

I like your suggestions, especially the second one. Let's wait with the Dutch version until we have a winner for the English one!

CC: lilian canale

Why not do both (English and Dutch) at the same time? Why must one precede the other?

Oh, yes, it's just what I tend to do with language pairs that are otherwise un-evaluateable. But you're right, in this case I think it is clear what we're trying to do!
Jollyo, any suggestions for the Dutch version from the suggestions above? (Will get pretty close to your (wrongly) rejected translation I think...)

In that case lets make the English translation as close to the original as possible:

We have to live life and living implies "drinking" life's poison.

This is as close (both in simplicity and wording) to the original Hindi as possible and still keeps the deeper meaning, by implying that drinking is not literal.

Perhaps a little suggestion to add:
'We have to live life and living it implies taking in life's poison.'

What do you ladies think?

If this one or a version that is very near to it can be validated, I'll resume (re)editing the Dutch one...

Together we will work it out!

I usesd "drinking" because the original uses that word. 'Taking in' is fine, too.

Let's decide and get done with these translations. It's been months now for whom ever requested them...

Go for it, Jollyo, you edit and I'll validate

Hi Lein,

Thank you! Also thanks to AspieBrain!
I hope and trust you can agree to the editing.
The English version is updated, too.
Finally... (sigh)

I think we are done and with a good result. At least we now know we did justice to the translation.

Thank you both for taking my comments seriously.

Thanks for your help!