Umseting - I beg forgiveness from Allah (Enskt)

Hi Elmota

How are the kangaroos?

I have a little problem with this bit:

"He who there is no God but Him",

What about "He who is the only God"

or "He who has no God above him"

or something similar.

Also this bit:

"and I repent to you as a wrongful slave towards himself, who doesn't own his own death ..."

Its a bit clumsy in English, is there another way of saying it?

Bises
Tantine

Which Sura is this? It might help to know for the translation.

don't ask me guys I need it to evaluate the Turkish one but the requester says in the comments that this is a prayer (not a Sure), but I'm not sure which one it is

"Self Subsisting Sustainer," is one of the 99 names for Allah.

There is a standard prayer: "I seek forgiveness from Allah, besides Whom there is nothing worthy of worship, the living, the Self-Subsisting Sustainer of all creation. And I turn to Him in seeking forgiveness ....
and I repent to you as a wrongful slave towards himself, who doesn't own his own death ..."
Could be expressed as follows: I offer you my repentence like a erroring slave to "he who doesn't own his own death"...(a reference to everlasting?)
The part about the wrongful slave:

Oh I understand now, you are right dramati, this is a standart prayer

Hi all

If this is a standard prayer we can probably find a copy of it on the net.

Do you want to look see, dramati? or smy? on google?

Let me know, if you are too busy I will find a little time slot.

Bises
Tantine

hi guys, actually i started my efforts on the arabic page along with anona but she disappeared so i decided to go ahead with translation, it is challenging and i did mean for it to change hands quite a few times before it is settled, so thanks for jumping in

this is a very traditional prayer that i found many references to it on the web but in Arabic, i also used one web reference for the names of Allah, so here goes nothing:
"He who there is no God but Him" can be "He who is the only God" but that would be great reduction, the former is closer in meaning and structure to the original
"I beg for the forgivess of Allah, I beg for the forgiveness of Allah the Magnificent, the Generous. He who there is no God but Him, the Ever Living, and the "Self Subsisting Sustainer" of all creation...
now the last part is not easy, "i repent" it starts, a repentance of a wrongful slave towards himself, in otherwards I admit i have been wrongful towards myself and as that, I seek repentance. the last part is an adjective of "slave" : a slave who does not own (or control) his own death... (the original goes on to say does not own his death or life or benefit or harm or resurrection)
so maybe:
"I seek repentance from you as a slave who has been wrongful towards himself, and who does not control their own death, life, benefit, harm or resurrection"

Hi elmota

I know that this type of translation can be really difficult because one tiny word change can change the whole meaning.

Unfortunately "He who there is no God but Him" does not "work" in English.

He who is the unique god
The god without whom no god exists...

We need to find something which feels comfortable in English.

The part about the repentance seems easier to translate I like what you suggest here but maybe you should substitute "their" for "his".

Bisous
Tantine

Bises
Tantine

What about "He is the one there is no God but Him, he is the..."? (the Turkish is near to it)

Hi smy

Maybe we should ask some other English speakers - kafetzou, ian megill, dramati... if they can find a suitable alternative?

It is still awfully clumsy in English and "looks translated".

It would still be quite clumsy but what about:

"He for whom there is no God but Him"

Bises
Tantine

Yes, I think it would be better if we ask for help? What makes me uncertain about the Turkish one is that the Arabic text seems very short but the Turkish one is too long

hi tantine
"He who is the unique god
The god without whom no god exists... " neither give the meaning, actually theyre totally missing the point. im sure tho that english-wise "He who there is no god but him" is plausable, like:
You, who theres noone in my heart but he
okay maybe: He, who there is no God by He

Hi Elmota

Sorry but the phrase "He who there is no god but him" does not work in english at all.

I know that the suggestions I hae made do not convey the full meaning of the phrase in Arabic, but a phrase that does not mean anything in the target language is of no use either.

How about "He for whom there is no other god"?

Word to word, literal tanslations hardly ever work, otherwise we wouldn't need translators (and we'd be out of work).

I'll cc the other English experts to see if they can suggest something that suits us all.

We'll get there in the end

Bises
Tantine

CC: Chantal IanMegill2 irini kafetzou samanthalee Una Smith

"beg the forgiveness": "for" not needed

"He who is, there is no God but Him"

"slave to Himself, who does not own his own death"

Tantine, it doesn't mean "He for whom there is no other god," it means "He who is the only god" - it refers to God Himself.

Maybe it should be "He but for whom there is no other god". It's actually really hard to make it sound good in English.

"Ever Living" should be "Immortal".

I don't agree with Una's suggestions this time. "beg for the forgiveness" is fine, the second suggestion is ungrammatical in English, and the "himself" does not refer to God, but to the sinner.

I think that elmota's suggestions for the last part are fine, except that "their" should be "his" to agree with the other pronoun.

I seek repentance from You as a slave who has been wrongful towards himself, and who does not control his own death ...

Hi Kafetzou et al

Yeah, I know it's speaking of God, which is why I made my first suggestions:

What about "He who is the only God"

or "He who has no God above him"

I could make another suggestion:

"He for whom there is no other God but himself"

Its really hard to find it in English.

In French it would have probably given:

"Celui pour lequel il n'y a de Dieux que Lui-même"

The "I seek repentance..." part looks good now though.

Bises
Tantine

But it's not "for whom" - it's "other than whom" or "except whom", but these are awkward in English. That's why I suggested "but for whom". In French I would think it would be "sauf lequel" or "au dehors duquel", but then again, my French isn't that good.

I hope you guys don't mind, but I've made some edits. It's now less awkward, but certainly more wordy.

Hehe, you are quite right Kafetzou, But for whom, even if it is a little "clumsy" is about the best bet we have.

Your French is quite up to standard, don't worry.

Bises

No no, Tantine, I think I didn't make myself clear - "for whom" is not correct. If you say "for whom" it doesn't refer to God, it refers to the person who believes in God. If I say, "For me, there's only one God," I am me, not God.