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| | 20 Tháng 9 2007 05:23 |
| | Hi Michel,
Is the subject of this sentence implied in Chinese (and so it's okay to cut), or is å¾æ–‡åš's Chinese ungrammatical?
ä¸å›½çš„語法上ã€å¦‚果在這些文的話ã€ä¸»èªžä¸ç”¨ma?
hai是用å£èªžèª¬è©±çš„時候ã€ä¹Ÿå¯ä»¥ma?
CC: Michel Lao |
| | 20 Tháng 9 2007 07:09 |
| | In Chinese Order:
(subject) Take Photo?
obviously, the sentence has no subject, but it is right in oral Chinese, and also in written Chinese. Because modern Chinese is based on spoken Chinese.
这个汉è¯å¥å是æ£ç¡®çš„,虽然没有主è¯ï¼Œä½†å¦‚果没有必è¦æŒ‡æ˜Žï¼Œæˆ–者总体很有局é™ï¼Œå¾ˆå®¹æ˜“分辨出所指者是è°ï¼Œå°±ä¸éœ€è¦ç‰¹åˆ«æŒ‡æ˜Žä¸»è¯æ˜¯è°äº†ã€‚
如果总体有两个人,那么主è¯å°±é™å®šåœ¨è¯¢é—®è€…与被问者之间,从è¯æ°”上看,多是åŽè€…。但也有å‰è€…的情况,也有包括所有人的情况。比如:
甲:我先干到这里。
乙:åƒé¥åŽ»å—?
ç”²ï¼šå¯¹å•Šï¼Œä½ åŽ»ä¸åŽ»ï¼Ÿ
甲:åƒé¥åŽ»å—?
ä¹™ï¼šä½ å…ˆåŽ»ï¼Œæˆ‘æ‰‹å¤´è¿˜æœ‰æ´»ã€‚
甲:大家先åœä¸€åœï¼
乙(丙ã€ä¸...):åƒé¥åŽ»å—?
CC: IanMegill2 |
| | 20 Tháng 9 2007 07:25 |
| | Thanks, pluiepoco!
I edited the original: would you say the meaning is right now?
PS: in English, as a question, we can't say
Take a photo?
nor is it natural to say
Will you take a photo?
so this was the closest I could get to the feeling of the original Chinese...
Can you think of anything better? CC: pluiepoco |
| | 20 Tháng 9 2007 07:39 |
| | I think you are right.
It is like a street vendor soliciting his business from a passer-by, usually at scenic spot.
But this is a full sentence, and I don't believe in English community there is no such shortened soliciting sentence as in Chinese.
So, can we just say "photo" or "photography" or grammatically "photo-taking"?
CC: IanMegill2 |
| | 20 Tháng 9 2007 08:27 |
| | Hmmm..It's as I thought: the meaning of this Chinese is a full sentence, meaning "Would you like to take a photo?" i.e. it cannot be just a noun (i.e. "photo-taking" ), beause of the å— at the end...
So we need to translate it as a full sentence, I should think.
The communicative act is the same: in exactly the same case as people would say in China
照相å—?
in an English-speaking country, they would say
Do you want to take a picture?
So I guess we have to leave it as a sentence...
Hmmm... I guess I'll validate it now.
Thanks for your help! ![](../images/emo/tongue.png) |
| | 20 Tháng 9 2007 08:29 |
| | Sorry, I forgot to CC you in my last message! CC: pluiepoco |
| | 20 Tháng 9 2007 08:34 |
| | Hi jp, I thought you might be interested in our translation from the Chinese here: you can see how different the two languages are!
If you have any comments, please let me know! CC: cucumis![](../images/wrench_orange.gif) |
| | 20 Tháng 9 2007 08:54 |
| | Well, when I said "full sentence", I referred to your English translation in full structure of SVO.
And when I said "shortened", I referred to the shortened structure the same as the origial Chinese text.
And I wanted to claim that, You were correct to translate the Chinese shortened sentence into an English full sentence, but a full sentence is obviously lengthy for a solicitor who is the asker of the question "照相�".
CC: IanMegill2for clarifications |
| | 20 Tháng 9 2007 23:01 |
| | I see! Thanks again, pluiepoco!
I suppose the only way to shorten this sentence at the colloquial level in English would be
"Photo?"
But I think this is just too de-contextualized for anybody to understand...
It's funny, you know, I was thinking about it and I discovered that in Japanese, there is the exact same expression as in Chinese
写真撮りã¾ã™ã‹ï¼Ÿ
which also has the same balance of context vs. word meaning, i.e. literally "Take photo?"
In English, if we just say
Photo?
without a context, it could be "would you like to buy a photo?" or so many other possibilities, it's too unclear...
The Chinese and Japanese expressions have a balance of context <--> words that is " between" the two English phrases
Do you want (me) to take a photo?
and just
Photo?
so I guess we have to choose the first full sentence for the sake of clarity...
Thanks again for all your help!
我很感è¬ni了! CC: pluiepoco |