dialects or languages?

It will be very kind of you to reply, whether there is any idea in linguistics (semiotics) that, letters is a sign to record languages? And does the letters contain Chinese characters?

If yes, our difference starts from here.

Hope I don't translate wrong, because I hear of this from Chinese information quoted from western linguistics. That is what I really doubt. There are two-way translation errors which will happen, so we import ideas distorted and export the processed ideas distorted for another time.

I must admit that, to Chinese, linguistics is a new science, and before that, we had our own Wen Zi Xue (小学, 文字学), how to say, like linguistics but remaining on our characters, without trying to explain on other languages. It is similar to linguistics, but contains different elements. Not in three dimensions, but including phonetics, lexicology, no grammatics, study on characters and etimology, just similar.

But any way, linguistics will stop and reorganize in Chinese. Because generations of Chinese linguists are supporting romanization, so it is not as simple as right or wrong? There must be something wrong with the criterion to judge. That is linguistics.

well, I think Dutch and Flemmish should be 2 languages too then..

Dutch is the language (officialy) spoken in Aruba, The Netherlands and a part of Belgium, it's also spoken in a small part of France which is a former part of Belgium (French - Flanders)

Flemmish is the offical language of Flanders, we have no connection with the dutch people (In the middle ages, The Netherlands and Flanders formed 'the Southern Netherlands' which was 1 of the richest parts of the then known world..
but we kept our Flemmish language,, and that's why Flanders split up in 1830 to become a new country,, 'Belgium'
now there are some problems with the politics, and alot of Flemmish habitants want to become independent from our slavemaster (the french)

Flanders has been occupied since the Romans by the Romans/French/Dutch/Austrian and Spanish army! now it's time to become independent and have their own! National language..

btw: Flemmish has different idioms, and even different words..
'Antwerp is the most important dialect in Flanders, most words in our flemmish vocubalary comes from the Antwerp dialect,,'

If JP know's the difference between Flemmish and Dutch, then I hope he'll make Flemmish a different language in cucumis..

pluiepoco, linguistics is not the same as semiotics. I have never studied semiotics, so I cannot answer your questions about it.

I don't understand why is there Croatian and Bosnian language when those two languages are almost the same. Maybe there is a difference in few words which certainly wouldn't be used here. When I was at school I learned that South-Slavic languages are Bulgarian, Macedonian, Slovenian, Croatian, Serbian and Old-Slavic. Nobody mentioned Bosnian and Montenegrin.

Why are Croatian and Serbian considered separate?

Because, although small, there difference between those two languages. It was one language, Serbo-Croatian, until 1991, when Socialistic Republic of Yugoslavia stopped existing. Serbians use ekavian dialect and Croatians use ijekavian dialect.
Serbian: vreme, mleko, čovek, dete, voleti
Croatian: vrijeme, mlijeko, čovjek, dijete, voljeti

There is also a difference in infinitive:
Serbian: komentarisati...
Croatian: komentirati...

Some words are similar:
Serbian: sudija, krompir,
Croatian: sudac, krumpir,

Some words are totally different:
Serbian: hleb, pasulj, kašičica, sedmica, put...
Croatian: kruh, grah, žilica, tjedan, cesta...

There are many new words Serbians took directly from English while Croats made their own:
Serbian: fudbal (football), stanica (station), firma (firm), univerzitet (university)...
Croatian: nogomet, postaja, tvrtka, sveučilište...

Some sentences written in Serbian:
Juče je ceo dan padao sneg. Stariji sede nadajući se da će zima da prođe što pre, devojke kuvaju, momci čiste napolju dok se deca igraju. Nigde ptica. Neke su u toplim gnezdima dok je većina njih odlučila da se preseli u toplije krajeve. Vratiće se na proleće, u martu ili aprilu i ponovo će otići u septembru.

The same text in Croatian:
Jučer je cijeli dan padao snijeg. Stariji sjede nadajući se da će zima proći što prije, djevojke kuhaju, dečki čiste vani dok se djeca igraju. Nigdje ptica. Neke su u toplim gnijezdima dok je većina odlučila preseliti se u toplije krajeve. Vratiće se na proljeće, u ožujku ili travnju i ponovo će otići u rujnu.

Serbians pronounce č, ć, dž and đ like four different sounds while in Croatian č sounds like ć and dž sounds like đ so there is 4 symbols for 2 sounds. For example, Slovenians don't have ć and đ. They have only č and dž.

And, at the end, Croatians write only Latin while Serbians use both Latin and Cyrillic.

Thank you - that was very interesting. And where does Bosnian fit into the picture?

You asked "Why are Croatian and Serbian considered separate?", didn't mention Bosnian. It's a little bit difficult to explain this. They use ijekavian dialect, č and dž are like ć and đ, but they also use Cyrillic and Latin (100% sure for Republika Srpska, not sure for the rest of the country). Not sure do they say "hiljadu" (like Serbians) or tisuću (like Croatians) for "one thousand"; januar, februar, mart, april, maj, jun, jul, avgust, septembar, oktobat, novembar, decembar (like Serbians) or siječanj, veljača, ožujak, travanj, svibanj, lipanj, srpanj, kolovoz, rujan, listopad, studeni, prosinac (like Croatians) etc. I didn't had so many opportunities to hear real Bosnian like a had with Croatians (TV, books, music, internet...) but I know that they want to be more like Croatians than like Serbians and that Croatians certainly don't want to be like Serbians. Serbians also began to use some Croatian words but it sounds very funny to most of us.

I think you answered your own question (of 30 April 2008 03:03 above). When I was in school (before you were), they were all three called "Serbo-Croatian" - at least in English they were.

They say that "a language is a dialect with an army".

People who don't live here can't understand it. We all understand each other perfectly (like British, Americans, Canadians and Australians). Like I said, the difference is very small - accent and few words. I can watch OBN (Bosnian TV), HRT (Croatian TV), RTCG (Montenegrin TV) and RTS (Serbian TV) without problem. It is still one language, not matter what most people say. And I haven't seen here American English, Australian English... Greek and Cyprus Greek... It's hard to explain so I give up. If you ask me, you can put also Serbian for users from South Serbia (which I understand less than Croatian), Serbian for users from Vojvodina (where I'm from), Croatian for users from Dalmacija...

I guess is the same as here, in Scandinavia. Who speaks Dannish, understands very well and without problems Norwegian and Sweedish and vice-versa. Thou, I have heard several times opinions about Faroese being a dialect of Danish, just because Faroe Islands are part of the Dannish Kingdom, thus the many words lent from Danish... Considering also the many-many years when Faroese language was forbidden in schools (by the Danish), it still amazes me how much it has developed in the last 50 years and how rich it can be for a language with only 75000 speakers.

Maybe it would make more sense to just call it one language: Bosno-Serbo-Croatian, and then allow requesters to specify which one they want if it matters, as we have done for English.

Maybe one day when we all will be in the European Union...

Ah - yes.

Yeah, Iepurica, partially you're right. I was in Sweden and I've learned a little bit Swedish. After that I found some lyrics in Danish and Norwegian and I noticed that those languages are similar. But Bosnian and Croatian are more like Romanian and Moldavian. Crezi-mă, ştiu ce vorbesc că ştiu româneşte cam bine dar, pentru că am TVR acasă, de nişte ori am urmărit Mesagerul, ştiri la Moldova 1, şi e cam ca română, numai e accentul diferit (cred că ştii mai bine decât mine, să nu-ţi explic).
PS. De ce nume Iepurica şi poza de câine?
Multe salutări din Serbia!