Tercüme - Norveççe-Latince - Jeg savner deg, pappa

Do we need a subject here:=="Miss you, Pa.""=

No

Yes, thanks Lene

CC: gamine

Hi Aneta!

"papa/papas" means "tutor or governor" (hence Pope in Christianity).

In the language of children, dad/daddy is "tata"!

Varr. ap. Non. 81, 5: 'cum cibum ac potionem buas ac pappas uocent et matrem mammam, patrem tatam'

From this testimony of our so precious and inestimable Varro, we can learn that Roman children was used to say "pappa" (or papa) for food!

However when they spoke Greek, which couldn't have been unusual, they would say "pap[p]a!" as in Italian, Spanish and French.

... were used... (sorry!)

From what I can gather you want me to write "tata" instaed of "papa"... Do you?
It was realy nice to get know that Roman children called their father like Polish children do now (sic!) So thanks a lot for this info. You're incredible, chronotribe!

Moreover, if you are curious (I know you are inherently), there are two similar words in Italian language: papà – daddy, and papa – pope. They differ from each other only by the accent Isn't it interesting?

This is quite a surprising situation indeed, because French children (and to my regret...) older people are used to say 'papa' for 'père' (only yesterday I saw in Paris streets a demonstration of fathers protesting against children custody legislation, who were handing placards and streamers that read something like 'PAPAS EN COLERE' [ANGRY DADDIES] making probably a fair protest into a ludicrous fair...).

Thus when I read you had translated 'pa' into 'papa', I wasn't amazed by the strangeness of thing, but you know quam religiosus aliquando sim: the fact is I couldn't remember only one locus in authors (Cicero' Letters ad Fam., for instance) where they had written as Children babble, 'papa' or whatever instead of 'pater mi'!

This is all the more surprising to learn thanks to your kindness that Polish children call their fathers like Roman ones did! Mirabilia temporum morumque! In France, some children say 'tata' (others, like I was used to say, 'tatie') for 'tante' (aunt)...

Your remark about Italian words 'papà' and 'papa' is very interesting indeed and well suitable for satisfying (and teasing) my curiosity! Difference of accent in words (unfortunately too weak and monotonous in French) is often a good way to trace difference of origins. I suppose this may be a hint, that those two words have partly separated etymologies. According to etymological dictionaries, the origin of It. 'papa'/Fr. 'pape' is well-known: it is Lat. 'pap[p]a[s]' (from Greek πάπας, πάππας = 'daddy') meaning 'governor' or 'tutor', 'paedagogus'(Juvenal, 6, 632), hence a honorary title '[foster] father' given to bishops from the 3rd cent., then (6th cent.) mainly to the bishop of Rome, and finally nearly reserved to him from 9th.

However, the etymology of 'papà', Fr. 'papa' (same stress), etc., is far less clear. In French it is attested since the 12th cent. and probably far older, but dictionaries only emphasize 'correspondences' in other languages. One of them indicates Lat. 'pappus' (grandfather/old man/ancestor) as a possible origin, but this one comes directly from Greek πάππoς (same meaning)... It doesn't seem to me more satisfying than 'pappas'. I think it's probably some 'recreation' in accordance with a common pattern in an early state of Romanic languages or perhaps in late Latin (before Romanic languages had differentiated themselves from each others). Nothing is more obfuscated and mysterious than those familiar things.

Well... hem... Just another thing about translation:
I'm not sure of 'tibi' here. Wouldn't it be rather 'tui' (pron. gen.) or 'tuo'(adj. abl.)?

Thanks for your 'rich' answer! I like to work and discuse with you so much. I'm learning from you a lot! Well, if I remember correctly there is a phrase 'in desiderio alicui esse" in my dictionary, but I'll check it once again, ok?

You're right, chronotribe! Maybe I was drunken when I was translating it

There are two possibilities:
1. "desiderio alicui esse" - to cause longing in sb!
2. "in desiderio alicuius esse" - to be an object of sb's longing

So, I propose the following versions to choose:
1."Desiderio mihi es, tata"
2."In desiderio mei es, tata"

Which do you prefer?

or simply:
3. "Te desidero, tata".

In my opinion the last one is the best

I think so too