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Översättning - Brasiliansk portugisiska-Finska - Já vai?

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Denna text är tillgänglig på följande språk: Brasiliansk portugisiskaEngelskaFinska

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Titel
Já vai?
Text
Tillagd av GislaineB
Källspråk: Brasiliansk portugisiska

Já vai?

Titel
Joko lähdet?
Översättning
Finska

Översatt av casper tavernello
Språket som det ska översättas till: Finska

Joko lähdet?
Anmärkningar avseende översättningen
====Lähdetkö jo====
Senast granskad eller redigerad av Maribel - 16 Maj 2007 11:01





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15 Maj 2007 14:20

Maribel
Antal inlägg: 871
Does this mean Are you leaving already?
Polishing needed, sorry.

lähteä=to leave When conjugated t>d in some persons (minä lähden).
And because this is a question, a suffix for questions (-ko, -kö) has to be added.
Could you try again with these hints?

15 Maj 2007 14:29

casper tavernello
Antal inlägg: 5057
Right?

15 Maj 2007 14:32

casper tavernello
Antal inlägg: 5057
But this might be on 3rd person: lähdeeko ()

15 Maj 2007 15:16

Maribel
Antal inlägg: 871
Suffix to the FIRST word, ä goes with kö and a with ko

15 Maj 2007 15:45

casper tavernello
Antal inlägg: 5057
Sorry for my "stupidness"!
I saw this here!

15 Maj 2007 16:40

Maribel
Antal inlägg: 871
Nothing to apologise, Dear friend. You are not stupid, the link is. Sorry to use you as a ginny-pig, but here is what I wrote in the meantime (modified a little bit because of the wrong info in the link).

An explanation why you have to add a suffix for question might be in order. When you say this in spanish (and in protuguese too I guess) you can only put the words there and use intonation (or question mark) to change it from a simple statement to a question, in finnish this is not possible. A question has to have either a question word (what where etc) or that suffix to tell us that it is a question - also obligatory in writing despite the fact that the question mark is there to be seen.

Word order in finnish is quite free, but still the most important thing to speaker (the topic) comes first. However, sometimes (not often) different word order changes the meaning (or at least the emphasis) > it has to be translated differently to a language where word order is more fixed. (Did my paper at the university on this, lol, but won't go further this time...)

Two possibilities: Joko lähdet? or Lähdetkö jo?
Here the first one puts the emphasis on already: leaving right now, so soon. Theoretically the second one is more concerned about the leaving in general but I hear not much difference between the two here.
(Truth is that you can say Jo lähdetkö? But only in a poem (old one) with great emphasis on SO SOON.)

THE LINK YOU GAVE HAS WRONG INFORMATION!!!
The radix does not change in third person singular nor plural. And always o/a + -ko and also ö/ä +-kö (almost impossible to pronounce a vowel in the front of the mouth and in the back of the mouth in one word - explains other changes too if you can grasp what this means).

present tense affirmative:
minä lähden, sinä lähdet, hän LÄHTEE, me lähdemme, te lähdette, he LÄHTEVÄT
present tense interrogative:
LÄHDENKÖ, LÄHDETKÖ, LÄHTEEKÖ, LÄHDEMMEKÖ, LÄHDETTEKÖ, LÄHTEVÄTKÖ
negative forms:
en lähde, et lähde, ei lähde, emme lähde, ette lähde, EIVÄT lähde
The radix does not change in third person singular or plural.
(If the verb is used alone then Lähdetkö? is correct, but with another word it is the first one where the suffix should be added.)

I guess that third problem is the most difficult for foreigners, the way words change when inflected or conjugated. Very sorry it is not enough to know the basic form and the endings. E.g.
t>d (pöytä>pöydän=table) and (lähteä, lähden...to leave)
double consonant>single cons. (pappi>papin=priest) and (päättää, päätän...to decide)
-nk- >-ng- (kenkä>kengän=shoe) and (onkia, ongin...to angle (fish))
p>v (leipä>leivän=loaf of bread) and (leipoa, leivon...to bake)

Don't know if there are any rules to that, never learned finnish that way. (There might be other changes, too.) Only thing about this I remember from school is a test where we had to find the radix of several words I had never heard before - impossible it was. Maybe you have been teached from which form of the word it can easily be found. Those changes (see above) unfortunately make it confusing. (The link seems to cut the word in right places, so radix is found, also the syllable where the changes occur is separated and at last the part for the proper ending)

Sorry about this attempt to lecture, I only hope that it explains something.

15 Maj 2007 16:57

Maribel
Antal inlägg: 871
And still, just understood that maybe "vai" in the original might be 3rd pers sing...

Before adapting/modifying I need to know if the original is 2nd or 3rd person, please. If it could be both we have to write it in comments. And have a new translation again, 3rd person needs a subject too...oh no!

15 Maj 2007 17:12

casper tavernello
Antal inlägg: 5057
WOW! What an explanation! Thanks from me and GislaineB!
Well, this is such a crazy thing between portuguese and spanish: the Usted(formal) is like the Você(informal), conjugated as 3rd person, but refering to a 2nd person.
There is a post about it on the source text!

15 Maj 2007 17:17

casper tavernello
Antal inlägg: 5057
It's just some kind of farewell.
The person just doesn't want the other leave.

15 Maj 2007 17:25

Maribel
Antal inlägg: 871
Ok, if it is referring solely to 2nd person (and only the conjugation is similar, as I understand it), my choices would alright. But if it can refer to 3rd person also, then we might choose a passive form of the verb. The problem is that 3rd person singular passive used in finnish refers also to "we". Something like Shall we go? Let's go etc

But this makes me think of a royal 3rd person where the king speaks of himself in 3rd person(my history teacher used it, but not common at all)...

Now I have to take a break form this to be able to get my thoughts together, will return tomorrow. Very interesting discussion though.

15 Maj 2007 17:31

Maribel
Antal inlägg: 871
Now it is correct, but I would still say it the other way around if farewell emphasizing soon like Do you really have to leave so soon? Joko lähdet?

Sorry, this getting maybe too precision seeking...

15 Maj 2007 17:48

casper tavernello
Antal inlägg: 5057
Both ways are nice. I'll put as comments that one and main this.
Kiitoksia oikein paljon

I'll boookmark this one...