Tercüme - İngilizce-Arapça - Dialogue with a Border Guard

To elmota:
لا أشك أنك أكثر دراية بنقل معاني كلمات مثل "fool" إلى أبله، لكن تحويل جملة "وقع نائما" إلى "استغرق نوماً" لا أراها موفقة.

لقد كنت أنا هذه المرة أكثر التزاما بالحرفية وبكلمات الأصل الإنجليزي، جيد أننا لا نختلف فعلا كما كان يبدو في المكان آخر، باستثناء طريقة تعبيرنا عن أفكارنا ربما. لكنني مع ذلك سأحرص على أن أوضح أنني التزمت الحرفية أكثر لأن بعض الصيغ أصبحت شائعة تماما، عبارات مثل: وقع نائما، "يقف أمام" الأكثر عصرية كمقابل للمعنى القديم "يعرض على" والأقدم منه "المثول".

أوافقك على "علّ الشيخ يزيح همّه عنّي"، و"سيفعل ما شاء الله". اختياراتك هنا أفضل.

وتبقى
he will have the answers
معتمدة على أي معنى مقصود في الواقع. إذا كان الضمير لا يعود على الله كما افترضت أنا، فلا بأس. خلاف ذلك أجد اختياراتي أوفق وإن كانت بعيدة قليلا.

Hi B Trans

You called for an admin, but I'm afraid we are not able to understand Arabic.
Please, would you post in English so that we can help you?
Thanks.

Sorry lilian canale, it's my mistake, there is no need for administration.

I'm just not aware of the hierarchy of administration, and thought that being able to edit posts means that 'elmota' would be an admin and gets notified.

It's just a discussion with elmota about her modifications on this translation.

Thank you very much.

I am unable to see the original translation that B. Trans did before Elmota's edits... I too would like to be able to compare the two...

Is there a history place where one is able to view the various changes made etc.??

Thanks all.

Hi elmota,

I wonder if you copy/pasted the original version before the edits (very unlikely, I guess), B Trans and ThunderStorm would like to compare both.

CC: elmota

hmm, no i didnt, i just came in, found out its not very correct and changed it, but i admit, i had time at my hand so i was walking through it freely changing it to a more correct format, b trans, you have said it urself, i was right more times than you have, and i disagree with you on "modern arabic" there is no such thing, words are words, and "stand before" is 100% english, translating it literally unfortunately is a common mistake in arabic, there is no "يقف أمام" it has always been "المثول" as a matter of fact even that is pretty new. the original was longer by the way i had to take out lots of words (simplicity is always the key)
as for "he will have the answers" if it was meant to be God, the word would be "He" and the translation would not be "السميع العليم" no matter what good intentions you had

i changed استغرق نوماً to خرّ نائماً
much better, agree?
as for أبله i dont mind مغفّل but that would be "idiot" more... but what i do mind and i should drive your attention to is "أخرق/مغفل"
reason being: cucumis performs word count and updates everytime a translation is validated, so if you have two words for one, that increases the ratio of Arabic/English word count, and that affects all future translations, because future translators cannot submit a translation that deviates from the standard ratio, so be careful, if you have different words, use the comment box
thanks b trans, i totally appreciate your work here

how about "الوقوف بين يدي الشيخ" instead of "للمثول"

"stand before" is an authentic Arabic expression. You find in the Quranic verse: {وقفوهم إنهم مسؤولون}
it's implied of course that the standing of humans is always before someone, but you know the Arabic eloquence that tends to implication. So it's 100% original, besides what you've said yourself that translating it literally is a common practice, from which it acquired its modernity impression.

"الوقوف بين يدي الشيخ" is a perfect choice. But "خر نائما" is not quite good, because "خر" literally means "to snore". "سقط نائما" is my preference because there is no better one.

I don't know how to thank you enough for your interaction and help. I learnt alot, even though we didn't agree all along. Thank you Amal.

ThunderStorm: elmota will do the appropriate changes, I hope you could use of the translation.

p.s, سيكون should be ستكون.

this is great, i like where we got at last, but about "خر" dont we say "خر واقعاً"? im sure i heard that before

Yes, you're right about that, "خر نائما".. "غط في النوم"..it's actually a kind of common mistake committed by some Arab writers, that they consider them equivalent to "fallen asleep", while their accurate meaning is "snoring in his sleep".

Aynway it won't suit this particular translation, in which the source actually refers to tiredness as why he's fallen asleep (as I understand it), not to the sleep condition or its depth.