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Umseting - Latín-Enskt - 11.7.0. De metallariis et metallis et...

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Hendan umbidna umseting er "Bert meining".
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11.7.0. De metallariis et metallis et...
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11.7.0. De metallariis et metallis et procuratoribus metallorum.
11.7.3

Imperatores Gratianus, Valentinianus, Theodosius . Cuncti, qui per privatorum loca saxorum venam laboriosis effossionibus persequuntur, decimas fisco, decimas etiam domino repraesentent, cetero modo suis desideriis vindicando. * GRAT. VALENTIN. ET THEODOS. AAA. FLORO PP. *<A 382 D. III K. SEPT. CONSTANTINOPOLI ANTONIO ET SYAGRIO CONSS.>
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elimdeki metnin bu mu olduğunu öğrenmek istiyorum ayrıca başlıkta ne yazdığını bilmiyorum "eğer toprakla örtülü taş ocaklarının derin dehlizleriş binaların temellerini tehlikeye maruz bırakıyorsa´binaların altında aynı durumu yaratan mermer yatakları varsa onları arama imkanı kabul edilmemektedir"(elimdeki metin) yardımcı olabilecek arkadaşların acil yardımına ihtiyacım var...

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11.7.0. Concerning metal-miners, ...
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11.7.0. Concerning metal-miners, metals and procurators of metal mines.
11.7.3

Emperors Gratian, Valentinian and Theodosius. All who, by laborious diggings, follow a vein in the rocks belonging to private parties, shall pay one tenth to the fisc, one tenth to the owner, and keep the remainder themselves.
* VALENTINIAN AND THEODOSIUS AAA. TO FLORUS PRAETORIAN PREFECT <UNDER THE REIGN OF CONSTANTINOPLE ANTONIUS AND SYAGRIUS CONSUL 3rd SEPT. 382AD,>

Góðkent av lilian canale - 19 September 2009 12:28





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7 September 2009 08:43

Efylove
Tal av boðum: 1015
At the end GRAT. is Gratianus, not "Thanks to"
And you wrote August instead of Antonius.

What do AAA. stand for?? Do you have an idea?


7 September 2009 09:32

Aneta B.
Tal av boðum: 4487
AAA.? I have no idea, for sure abbreviation from some names, but we can leave it in abbreviation I think.
CONSTANTINOPLE AUGUST --> CONSTANTINOPLE ANTONIUS (of course )

Emperors Gratian,...

Gratianus = Eng.Gratian


TO GRATIAN VALENTINIAN AND THEODOSIUS AAA. FLORUS PRAETORIAN PREFECT <CONSTANTINOPLE ANTONIUS AND SYAGRIUS CONSUL 3rd SEPT. 382AD>

Is this ok now, Efee? (Uff! Not easy text...)

CC: Efylove

7 September 2009 12:01

Efylove
Tal av boðum: 1015
TO GRATIAN VALENTINIAN AND THEODOSIUS - maybe without "to" because it's some kind of signature...

It's perfect!

7 September 2009 12:50

Aneta B.
Tal av boðum: 4487
But it is in dative: GRAT[iano] VALENTIN[ino] ET THEODOS[io] AAA. FLORO PP. *<A 382 D. III K. SEPT. CONSTANTINOPOLI ANTONIO ET SYAGRIO CONSS...
so I will translate it as: "(addressed)to Gratian,..etc."

CC: Efylove

7 September 2009 12:55

Efylove
Tal av boðum: 1015
I think it's some kind of absolute ablative. Maybe it should be "while Gratianus, Valent. etc. are emperors" or "being ... emperors".
Maybe AAA. it's "Augustus" repeated three times: "Being ... Augusti".
Like "Floro PP": "while Florus is praetorian perfect". And "while Antonius and Syagrus are consuls".
A way to write the date?

But I don't know, dear...

7 September 2009 13:02

Aneta B.
Tal av boðum: 4487
Hmm... Maybe, you're right, dear one. I will check it, ok? I must compare it with some ancient sources...

7 September 2009 13:48

Aneta B.
Tal av boðum: 4487
You know, what I think, Efee?
The first part is probably in dative ("addresed to..." )
GRAT. VALENTIN. ET THEODOS. AAA. FLORO PP.

and this one in parenthesis in Ablativus absolutus (stricte connected with date, so "under the reign of..." ):
*<A 382 D. III K. SEPT. CONSTANTINOPOLI ANTONIO ET SYAGRIO CONSS.>

What do you think now?

CC: Efylove

7 September 2009 13:36

Aneta B.
Tal av boðum: 4487
Compare with it (from Codex Iustinianus too):

ARCAD. ET HONOR. AA. MESSALAE PP. *<A 399 D.XIIII K.MART.MEDIOLANI THEODORO PVC.CONS.>

MESSALAE can't be Ablative...

http://upmf-grenoble.fr/Haiti/Cours/Ak/Corpus/CJ11.htm

7 September 2009 18:36

Efylove
Tal av boðum: 1015
This is the third time I try to write here (my pc has gone crazy!).

So, Messalae was very helpful!!! It isn't ablative at all.
But I have another idea.
Second part: ablativus absulutus
First part: three nominativi and a dativus
"Gratian, Valentinian and Theodosius AAA. to Florus"

Because, I think, if the emeprors wrote the law (as we read above) how could the law be addresed to themselves? And, I remember, in Late Antiquity, laws were in the form of a letter written to important members of the political estabilishment (such as our dear pratorian perfect!)

What do you think, dear?
We are going crazy with this text - but it's so funny!

7 September 2009 18:53

Aneta B.
Tal av boðum: 4487
You are great, dear one!!! I love cooperating with you!
Yes, I think your version is very possible. I think we can accept this version now:

11.7.0. Concerning metal-miners, metals and procurators of metal mines.
11.7.3

Emperors Gratian, Valentinian and Theodosius. All who, by laborious diggings, follow a vein in the rocks belonging to private parties, shall pay one tenth to the fisc, one tenth to the owner, and keep the remainder themselves.
* VALENTINIAN AND THEODOSIUS AAA. TO FLORUS PRAETORIAN PREFECT <UNDER THE REIGN OF CONSTANTINOPLE ANTONIUS AND SYAGRIUS CONSUL 3rd SEPT. 382AD,>

Do you agree, Efee?