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Dịch - German-English - Vollständig mit traditionellen Chorälen...

Current statusDịch
This text is available in the following languages: GermanEnglish

Nhóm chuyên mục Free writing - Arts / Creation / Imagination

This translation request is "Meaning only".
Title
Vollständig mit traditionellen Chorälen...
Text
Submitted by milkman
Source language: German

(144) Vollständig mit traditionellen Chorälen übereinstimmende Zeilen im Choralhaften sind jedoch selten und dann wenig charakteristisch, indem sie in mehreren Chorälen vorkommen und als Floskeln des Choralidioms gelten können oder allgemein hymnischen Charakter haben. Der "Choral" aus der Klavierfuge e-Moll op.35/1 dient hier als Beispiel, da er allgemein als besonders konkret in seinen Anklängen gilt. Immer wieder wird versucht, die einzelnen Zeilen auf traditionelle Choräle zu beziehen [35]. Allerdings sind sowohl die als konkret angesehenen Anklänge als auch die Rückführung auf ein Modell nicht ohne Weiteres haltbar und wesentlich weniger plausibel als behauptet. "Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott" als Vorbild anzuführen, ist zwar durch die beiden melodisch ähnlichen Kurzzeilen und die übereinstimmende Schlusszeile überaus suggestiv [36]. Die einzelnen Zeilen koenen jedoch ohne Weiteres mit unterschiedlichen sogar der gaegigsten Choräle in Zusammenheng (145) gebracht werden (vgl. NB 36).

Title
Mendelssohn 144
Dịch
English

Translated by Lein
Target language: English

(144) However, lines in "choralhaften" that correspond completely with traditional chorales are rare and not very characteristic, whereas they do occur in several chorales and can be regarded as common expressions in the choral language or have a general hymnic character. The "Choral" from the piano fugue in e minor op.35/1 serves as an example here, since its harmonies are generally considered to be particularly concrete. Again and again attempts are made to attribute the individual lines to traditional chorales [35]. However both the harmonies which are regarded as concrete ones, and the tracing back to a model can not be maintained without difficulty and are substantially less plausible than stated. To take "Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott" as an example is especially suggestive because of the two melodically similar short lines and the corresponding final line [36]. However, the individual lines can easily be connected with even the most common corales (145) (cf NB 36).
Remarks about the translation
As far as I can see, choralhaften (adj) is mostly used to refer to choral-like works; however when it comes to the works of Mendelssohn, the word seems to be used as a noun to refer to a category of choral-like work that looks to me to be specific for the composer.
Validated by lilian canale - 3 Tháng 9 2008 05:18





Bài gửi sau cùng

Tác giả
Bài gửi

18 Tháng 8 2008 11:17

Lein
Tổng số bài gửi: 3389
Just out of interest, Milkman - why do you need these texts about Mendelssohn? Just curious!

26 Tháng 8 2008 07:13

Shaneeae
Tổng số bài gửi: 55
I believe "Anklänge" should be translated as "harmonies" in this context.

"Choral", being an adjective, cannot be used as a noun. The correct noun is "chorale".

Also, "cf." is the English counterpart for "vgl."

26 Tháng 8 2008 10:47

Lein
Tổng số bài gửi: 3389
I'm not sure about "harmonies" but you may be right there.
As for chorale, my mistake, you are absolutely right (Lilian, tell me if and when I should change it please as I see it's being evaluated).
As far as I'm concerned, 'cf' and 'see' have roughly the same meaning here so I don't mind - I can change it if you prefer.

26 Tháng 8 2008 17:42

italo07
Tổng số bài gửi: 1474
How Shaneeae says, vgl. means cf..

30 Tháng 8 2008 19:33

lilian canale
Tổng số bài gửi: 14972
Ok Lein,
Have you made all the changes you intended to?
If so, I think we can validate this one.

31 Tháng 8 2008 23:39

jollyo
Tổng số bài gửi: 330
There are still some things I think should be adjusted.

hymnical
hymnal

e-flat minor
E minor

gängstigen:
varied
common

vgl. = vergleiche = cf. (i.e. compare)
not 'see'


1 Tháng 9 2008 10:44

Lein
Tổng số bài gửi: 3389
A hymnal is a book containing hymns; hymnical is an adjective.

e-Moll is not the same note as e, but half a note below it so e flat.

gägigstigen

1 Tháng 9 2008 10:47

Lein
Tổng số bài gửi: 3389
Go ahead Lilian, I've incorporated Shaneeae's suggestions as well. Thank you, shaneeae and jollyo!

1 Tháng 9 2008 11:57

jollyo
Tổng số bài gửi: 330
Lein,

I agree that a hymnal is a songbook of hymns. It also actually is the adjective!
(see http://www.dict.cc/?s=hymnal%3B and of course our famous Van Dale dictionary)

Same goes for e-flat minor vs. E minor
see http://www.dict.cc/?s=e+flat
and http://www.dict.cc/?s=e%2FMoll

In English vs. Dutch vs. German:
e-flat minor Es mineur e-Moll
E minor E mineur (ookwel e) es-Moll

Please check once again!



1 Tháng 9 2008 12:11

Lein
Tổng số bài gửi: 3389
Ah, ok, changed e-flat to e and hymnical to hymnic.

2 Tháng 9 2008 19:10

lilian canale
Tổng số bài gửi: 14972
Everyone happy?

2 Tháng 9 2008 19:15

Lein
Tổng số bài gửi: 3389
I am...

2 Tháng 9 2008 21:56

jollyo
Tổng số bài gửi: 330
Likewise!


16 Tháng 10 2008 17:15

milkman
Tổng số bài gửi: 773
Hey everybody,
Although this one is long approved I cannot state enough how much you're all have been so helpful!
You just don't know how much it helps my research.
Thank you


CC: lilian canale

16 Tháng 10 2008 17:18

Lein
Tổng số bài gửi: 3389