Traduction - Allemand-Anglais - VollstÃ¤ndig mit traditionellen ChorÃ¤len...

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Titre

VollstÃ¤ndig mit traditionellen ChorÃ¤len...

Texte
Proposé par

milkman

Langue de départ: Allemand

(144) VollstÃ¤ndig mit traditionellen ChorÃ¤len Ã¼bereinstimmende Zeilen im Choralhaften sind jedoch selten und dann wenig charakteristisch, indem sie in mehreren ChorÃ¤len vorkommen und als Floskeln des Choralidioms gelten kÃ¶nnen oder allgemein hymnischen Charakter haben. Der "Choral" aus der Klavierfuge e-Moll op.35/1 dient hier als Beispiel, da er allgemein als besonders konkret in seinen AnklÃ¤ngen gilt. Immer wieder wird versucht, die einzelnen Zeilen auf traditionelle ChorÃ¤le zu beziehen [35]. Allerdings sind sowohl die als konkret angesehenen AnklÃ¤nge als auch die RÃ¼ckfÃ¼hrung auf ein Modell nicht ohne Weiteres haltbar und wesentlich weniger plausibel als behauptet. "Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott" als Vorbild anzufÃ¼hren, ist zwar durch die beiden melodisch Ã¤hnlichen Kurzzeilen und die Ã¼bereinstimmende Schlusszeile Ã¼beraus suggestiv [36]. Die einzelnen Zeilen koenen jedoch ohne Weiteres mit unterschiedlichen sogar der gaegigsten ChorÃ¤le in Zusammenheng (145) gebracht werden (vgl. NB 36).

Titre	Mendelssohn 144
Traduction Anglais Traduit par Lein	Langue d'arrivée: Anglais (144) However, lines in "choralhaften" that correspond completely with traditional chorales are rare and not very characteristic, whereas they do occur in several chorales and can be regarded as common expressions in the choral language or have a general hymnic character. The "Choral" from the piano fugue in e minor op.35/1 serves as an example here, since its harmonies are generally considered to be particularly concrete. Again and again attempts are made to attribute the individual lines to traditional chorales [35]. However both the harmonies which are regarded as concrete ones, and the tracing back to a model can not be maintained without difficulty and are substantially less plausible than stated. To take "Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott" as an example is especially suggestive because of the two melodically similar short lines and the corresponding final line [36]. However, the individual lines can easily be connected with even the most common corales (145) (cf NB 36).
Commentaires pour la traduction	As far as I can see, choralhaften (adj) is mostly used to refer to choral-like works; however when it comes to the works of Mendelssohn, the word seems to be used as a noun to refer to a category of choral-like work that looks to me to be specific for the composer.

Dernière édition ou validation par lilian canale

- 3 Septembre 2008 05:18

Derniers messages

	Auteur	Message
		18 Août 2008 11:17
	Lein Nombre de messages: 3389	Just out of interest, Milkman - why do you need these texts about Mendelssohn? Just curious!
		26 Août 2008 07:13
	Shaneeae Nombre de messages: 55	I believe "AnklÃ¤nge" should be translated as "harmonies" in this context. "Choral", being an adjective, cannot be used as a noun. The correct noun is "chorale". Also, "cf." is the English counterpart for "vgl."
		26 Août 2008 10:47
	Lein Nombre de messages: 3389	I'm not sure about "harmonies" but you may be right there. As for chorale, my mistake, you are absolutely right (Lilian, tell me if and when I should change it please as I see it's being evaluated). As far as I'm concerned, 'cf' and 'see' have roughly the same meaning here so I don't mind - I can change it if you prefer.
		26 Août 2008 17:42
	italo07 Nombre de messages: 1474	How Shaneeae says, vgl. means cf..
		30 Août 2008 19:33
	lilian canale Nombre de messages: 14972	Ok Lein, Have you made all the changes you intended to? If so, I think we can validate this one.
		31 Août 2008 23:39
	jollyo Nombre de messages: 330	There are still some things I think should be adjusted. hymnical hymnal e-flat minor E minor gÃ¤ngstigen: varied common vgl. = vergleiche = cf. (i.e. compare) not 'see'
		1 Septembre 2008 10:44
	Lein Nombre de messages: 3389	A hymnal is a book containing hymns; hymnical is an adjective. e-Moll is not the same note as e, but half a note below it so e flat. gÃ¤gigstigen
		1 Septembre 2008 10:47
	Lein Nombre de messages: 3389	Go ahead Lilian, I've incorporated Shaneeae's suggestions as well. Thank you, shaneeae and jollyo!
		1 Septembre 2008 11:57
	jollyo Nombre de messages: 330	Lein, I agree that a hymnal is a songbook of hymns. It also actually is the adjective! (see http://www.dict.cc/?s=hymnal%3B and of course our famous Van Dale dictionary) Same goes for e-flat minor vs. E minor see http://www.dict.cc/?s=e+flat and http://www.dict.cc/?s=e%2FMoll In English vs. Dutch vs. German: e-flat minor Es mineur e-Moll E minor E mineur (ookwel e) es-Moll Please check once again!
		1 Septembre 2008 12:11
	Lein Nombre de messages: 3389	Ah, ok, changed e-flat to e and hymnical to hymnic.
		2 Septembre 2008 19:10
	lilian canale Nombre de messages: 14972	Everyone happy?
		2 Septembre 2008 19:15
	Lein Nombre de messages: 3389	I am...
		2 Septembre 2008 21:56
	jollyo Nombre de messages: 330	Likewise!
		16 Octobre 2008 17:15
	milkman Nombre de messages: 773	Hey everybody, Although this one is long approved I cannot state enough how much you're all have been so helpful! You just don't know how much it helps my research. Thank you CC: lilian canale
		16 Octobre 2008 17:18
	Lein Nombre de messages: 3389