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Vertimas - Vokiečių-Anglų - Vollständig mit traditionellen Chorälen...Esamas statusas Vertimas
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Kategorija Laisvas rašymas - Menai / Kūryba / Vaizduotė  Tai "bendrosios prasmės" vertimo prašymas. | Vollständig mit traditionellen Chorälen... | | Originalo kalba: Vokiečių
(144) Vollständig mit traditionellen Chorälen übereinstimmende Zeilen im Choralhaften sind jedoch selten und dann wenig charakteristisch, indem sie in mehreren Chorälen vorkommen und als Floskeln des Choralidioms gelten können oder allgemein hymnischen Charakter haben. Der "Choral" aus der Klavierfuge e-Moll op.35/1 dient hier als Beispiel, da er allgemein als besonders konkret in seinen Anklängen gilt. Immer wieder wird versucht, die einzelnen Zeilen auf traditionelle Choräle zu beziehen [35]. Allerdings sind sowohl die als konkret angesehenen Anklänge als auch die Rückführung auf ein Modell nicht ohne Weiteres haltbar und wesentlich weniger plausibel als behauptet. "Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott" als Vorbild anzuführen, ist zwar durch die beiden melodisch ähnlichen Kurzzeilen und die übereinstimmende Schlusszeile überaus suggestiv [36]. Die einzelnen Zeilen koenen jedoch ohne Weiteres mit unterschiedlichen sogar der gaegigsten Choräle in Zusammenheng (145) gebracht werden (vgl. NB 36). |
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Išvertė  Lein | Kalba, į kurią verčiama: Anglų
(144) However, lines in "choralhaften" that correspond completely with traditional chorales are rare and not very characteristic, whereas they do occur in several chorales and can be regarded as common expressions in the choral language or have a general hymnic character. The "Choral" from the piano fugue in e minor op.35/1 serves as an example here, since its harmonies are generally considered to be particularly concrete. Again and again attempts are made to attribute the individual lines to traditional chorales [35]. However both the harmonies which are regarded as concrete ones, and the tracing back to a model can not be maintained without difficulty and are substantially less plausible than stated. To take "Ein feste Burg ist unser Gott" as an example is especially suggestive because of the two melodically similar short lines and the corresponding final line [36]. However, the individual lines can easily be connected with even the most common corales (145) (cf NB 36). | | As far as I can see, choralhaften (adj) is mostly used to refer to choral-like works; however when it comes to the works of Mendelssohn, the word seems to be used as a noun to refer to a category of choral-like work that looks to me to be specific for the composer. |
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Paskutinės žinutės | | | | |
18 rugpjūtis 2008 11:17 | | 
LeinŽinučių kiekis: 3389 | Just out of interest, Milkman - why do you need these texts about Mendelssohn? Just curious!  | | |
26 rugpjūtis 2008 07:13 | | | I believe "Anklänge" should be translated as "harmonies" in this context.
"Choral", being an adjective, cannot be used as a noun. The correct noun is "chorale".
Also, "cf." is the English counterpart for "vgl." | | |
26 rugpjūtis 2008 10:47 | |
LeinŽinučių kiekis: 3389 | I'm not sure about "harmonies" but you may be right there.
As for chorale, my mistake, you are absolutely right (Lilian, tell me if and when I should change it please as I see it's being evaluated).
As far as I'm concerned, 'cf' and 'see' have roughly the same meaning here so I don't mind - I can change it if you prefer. | | |
26 rugpjūtis 2008 17:42 | | | How Shaneeae says, vgl. means cf.. | | |
30 rugpjūtis 2008 19:33 | | | Ok Lein,
Have you made all the changes you intended to?
If so, I think we can validate this one. | | |
31 rugpjūtis 2008 23:39 | | | There are still some things I think should be adjusted.
hymnical 
hymnal 
e-flat minor
E minor
gängstigen:
varied
common
vgl. = vergleiche = cf. (i.e. compare)
not 'see'
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1 rugsėjis 2008 10:44 | |
LeinŽinučių kiekis: 3389 | A hymnal is a book containing hymns; hymnical is an adjective.
e-Moll is not the same note as e, but half a note below it so e flat.
gägigstigen | | |
1 rugsėjis 2008 10:47 | |
LeinŽinučių kiekis: 3389 | Go ahead Lilian, I've incorporated Shaneeae's suggestions as well. Thank you, shaneeae and jollyo! | | |
1 rugsėjis 2008 11:57 | | | Lein,
I agree that a hymnal is a songbook of hymns. It also actually is the adjective!
(see http://www.dict.cc/?s=hymnal%3B and of course our famous Van Dale dictionary)
Same goes for e-flat minor vs. E minor
see http://www.dict.cc/?s=e+flat
and http://www.dict.cc/?s=e%2FMoll
In English vs. Dutch vs. German:
e-flat minor Es mineur e-Moll
E minor E mineur (ookwel e) es-Moll
Please check once again!
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1 rugsėjis 2008 12:11 | |
LeinŽinučių kiekis: 3389 | Ah, ok, changed e-flat to e and hymnical to hymnic. | | |
2 rugsėjis 2008 19:10 | | | | | |
2 rugsėjis 2008 19:15 | |
LeinŽinučių kiekis: 3389 | | | |
2 rugsėjis 2008 21:56 | | | Likewise!
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16 spalis 2008 17:15 | | | Hey everybody,
Although this one is long approved I cannot state enough how much you're all have been so helpful!
You just don't know how much it helps my research.
Thank you
 CC: lilian canale | | |
16 spalis 2008 17:18 | |
LeinŽinučių kiekis: 3389 | |
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